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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Mar 18 00:33:16 EST 1999
  
  I guess this thread is just to discuss the copied songs of IR which IMO is very less. May be we can start a thread for inspired songs.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Mar 18 01:11:27 EST 1999
  
  Mr Kuzhapam,
  I think you have to understand the difference between 'copy' and 'inspiration'. When I played "Mozart, I love you" immediately people recognize to be in the 'style' of Mozart. Similarly, IR is inspired by Bach. Bach is the master of counterpoints. You see lots of IR's music is contrapuntal. Because of this you interpret IRs music as Bach like.
  
  To be fair IR himself claims that all he is doing is giving various permutations and combinations of seven swaras. Beleive it or not he claims he can never tell which song/composition will be a hit.
  
  To burst your bubble IR is in a different class than other MDs including ARR. It might be difficult to swallow this but think about it ..
  
  
• From: Fayeez (@ proxyi.emirates.net.ae) on: Thu Mar 18 06:09:26 EST 1999
  
  Enna venum sollungadaa doi
  ishtampola kathungadaa doi
  
  ada vetti pechi pesungadaa doi
  
  
  
  IDHU NAAN COPY ADICHADHU.....HEHEHEHE
  
  
• From: Aanandam (@ tsk-37-142.tm.net.my) on: Thu Mar 18 08:06:38 EST 1999
  
  When you compose for 700+ movies, one may get that impression. What do you have to say about someone like DEVA who is a 100 % copycat ?
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Thu Mar 18 10:54:06 EST 1999
  
  Deva isnt someone even worth talking about. so why waste time talking about him esp in this thread?
  
  
  
• From: Madhan, Goa. (@ 202.41.117.63) on: Thu Mar 18 11:37:17 EST 1999
  
  
  Hello Mr.Kuzhappam,
  
  Ever listened to "Aagaya vennilavey" from ARANGETRAVELAI ?
  
  It was "inspired" from Chaala Naattai Raagam - so, did Raja "copy" from St.Thyagaraja , or any other yesteryear composer ?
  
  Listened to "Oru Kanam oru yugamaaga" from NADODI THENDRAL ?
  
  It was "inspired" from Mohana Raagam (Raag Yaman in Hindustani classical) - so, again did Raja copy from some source ?
  
  
  You must be knowing about Mathematics genius Ramanujam - he gave a very complex definitions and derivations in the field of calculus , especially regarding the value of
  "pi (22/7)" .
  
  
  Now, just because Ramanujam used the numbers 22 and 7, can you claim that Ramanujam "copied" from somebody who has already created the numbers 22 and 7 ?
  
  
  Kavignar Kannadasan gave the following immortal lyric :
  
  " Oruvar thudippil uruvavadhu kavidhai ;
  iruvar thudippil uruvavadhu mazhalai "
  
  ------> " in the tremor of one heart is born a poem ; in the tremble of two people is born a child "
  
  Now, "Mazhalai" is a word that is very common in Tamil - even people before Kannadasan have used the word.
  
  WHy don't you go ahead and say that Kannadasan copied the word "mazhalai" from somebody for his poem ?
  
  Raja's inspiration is like how Ramanujam was inspired by Mathematics and gave complex derivations in the field of Calculus .
  
  It is like how, Kannadasan has brought out the inherent beauty of the word "mazhalai" in his poem.
  
  I can go further and explain, but let me see whether this posting is sufficient for you
  to understand, what we all are trying to do, in this thread.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Thu Mar 18 12:01:56 EST 1999
  
  Madhan,
  
  No. Your posting is neither sufficient for anybody to understand nor it shows what 'we' all are trying to understand. BTW who is this 'we' anyway. Before you try to include yourself in a 'we' please make sure that the others wish to include you in the 'we' or wish to include themselves in you 'we'.
  
  Aagaya veNNilaave does'nt sound like chalanaata at all. And Mohanam is Bhoopaali, Kalyani is Yaman. Please get your facts right, before you start criticizing others about their mistakes.
  
  There are a lot of IR fans like me, who can still accept that, yes, it is possible that IR has been inspired/copied/plagiarised or whatever the word for the day is, from some other composition. True! These instances are very rare and do not represent IR's genius or character. But I think fans like me are 'secure' in that knowledge and not bothered by it and don't feel the compulsion to refute all/any such arguments with either personal attacks or outright denials. Ask yourself this question - If for some reason or external pressure, if IR blatantly copies a song tomorrow, are you going to jump off the IR bandwagon and deny his fantastic achievements during the past 3 decades? I think your answer should be NO.
  Even if your answer is YES, as much as it hurts your feelings to know this, Madhan's feelings are the last thing on IR's mind.
  
  
• From: Madhan, Goa. (@ 202.41.117.63) on: Thu Mar 18 12:04:21 EST 1999
  
  
  Hello Mr.Kuzhappam,
  
  Ever listened to "Aagaya vennilavey" from ARANGETRAVELAI ?
  
  It was "inspired" from Chaala Naattai Raagam - so, did Raja "copy" from St.Thyagaraja , or any other yesteryear composer ?
  
  Listened to "Oru Kanam oru yugamaaga" from NADODI THENDRAL ?
  
  It was "inspired" from Mohana Raagam (Raag Yaman in Hindustani classical) - so, again did Raja copy from some source ?
  
  
  You must be knowing about Mathematics genius Ramanujam - he gave a very complex definitions and derivations in the field of calculus , especially regarding the value of
  "pi (22/7)" .
  
  
  Now, just because Ramanujam used the numbers 22 and 7, can you claim that Ramanujam "copied" from somebody who has already created the numbers 22 and 7 ?
  
  
  Kavignar Kannadasan gave the following immortal lyric :
  
  " Oruvar thudippil uruvavadhu kavidhai ;
  iruvar thudippil uruvavadhu mazhalai "
  
  ------> " in the tremor of one heart is born a poem ; in the tremble of two people is born a child "
  
  Now, "Mazhalai" is a word that is very common in Tamil - even people before Kannadasan have used the word.
  
  WHy don't you go ahead and say that Kannadasan copied the word "mazhalai" from somebody for his poem ?
  
  Raja's inspiration is like how Ramanujam was inspired by Mathematics and gave complex derivations in the field of Calculus .
  
  It is like how, Kannadasan has brought out the inherent beauty of the word "mazhalai" in his poem.
  
  I can go further and explain, but let me see whether this posting is sufficient for you
  to understand, what we all are trying to do, in this thread.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Thu Mar 18 12:06:37 EST 1999
  
  rajaG: An aside, what happened to your deadline?..Ippadi, l,r &c elloraiyum thakkareengale :). And one whole post without a single smiley! Cha, and u call urself a pgw fan:)
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Thu Mar 18 12:30:46 EST 1999
  
  Raj,
  
  uNmai therigindra varaiyil uranga maattEn (that is office la thoongamaattEn) endru sabadham. athaan deadlines a 'dead' paNNittu inga surfing!!
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Thu Mar 18 13:46:46 EST 1999
  
  rajaG: Enna unmai venum ungalukku? Chumma vidandavadathukosaram some X comes and says "Raja has lifted score Y from album/symphony/keerthanai/thingamajig of Z" , calls anyone who refutes a few names and then disappears. Andha maadhiri unmaiya?
  
  Honestly, will someone bother to compile a list of 'authenticated and verified' lifts of Raja?
  (And for once, I am SERIOUS!:))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Thu Mar 18 17:26:29 EST 1999
  
  Madhan,
  
  Aagaya Vennilave is in Darbari Kanada ( I believe).
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Thu Mar 18 17:36:02 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  
  Aagaaya VeNNilaavey sounds like Natabhairavi and has some saayals of Saaramathi (which is a janya of Natabhairavi) IMO. However, Darbari is also a janya of Natabhairavi, but I did'nt notice a whole lot of dha ni ri Sa, phrase of darbari in aagaaya veNNilaavEy.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Fri Mar 19 01:59:56 EST 1999
  
  I will try to explain the difference between 'copy' and 'inspiration'.
  
  'copy' - is using somebody's 'content'.
  'inspiration' - is using a 'concept'.
  
  If somebody used the sequence '2 4 6 8' and you used the same it is copy. but if you used another sequence of even numbers it is using a 'concept'.
  
  I hope this clears it.
  
  
  
• From: Justice Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Mar 19 11:36:55 EST 1999
  
  Indha thread arambithu Rendu varushathukkappurammum 4 paattukku mela quote panna mudiyathathinaal, Prosecution tharappu vazhakkai podhumana saatchiyam illadha kaaranathal thallubadi seigiraen. Ini, ithu pondru adharam illaamal kutram saattubavargal makkal nerathai veenadippavargal kadumaiyaga echarithu intha vazhakku mandram kalaigirathu.
  :)
  
  
• From: Thappu seidha justice:) (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Mar 19 11:38:28 EST 1999
  
  Read as:
  "Kadumaiyaga dhandikka paduvaargal(Oru varushathukku deva-vodu ore arayil vaasam:)) ...."
  
  
• From: justiceukku innoru justice (@ 202.41.117.63) on: Fri Mar 19 12:42:19 EST 1999
  
  It should be "Devavin ISAIYUDAN oru araiyil , oru varushathukku vaasam" - otherwise, if one goes by what you have written, one can have Deepa Mehta style interpretations of the "Devavudan oru araiyil ......" like "Andru peidha mazhaiyil " kind of story !!
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri Mar 19 15:54:59 EST 1999
  
  MADHAN: Where did you get this info. from? I know you love IR, but this information is WRONG?!?!? And, to post it twice? What are you thinking????? It really makes you look bad, whereas you're trying to make a point, a good one at that.....
  
  "Ever listened to "Aagaya vennilavey" from ARANGETRAVELAI ? It was "inspired" from Chaala Naattai Raagam - so, did Raja "copy" from St.Thyagaraja , or any other yesteryear composer?"
  
  I think the Chala Naatai Raga song by IR that you refer to is "Pani Vizlum Malar thanai"....Aagaaya Vennilaave is in Natabairavhi Raga.
  
  "Listened to "Oru Kanam oru yugamaaga" from NADODI THENDRAL ? It was "inspired" from Mohana Raagam (Raag Yaman in Hindustani classical) - so, again did Raja copy from some source?"
  
  WRONG AGAIN.....Mohanam is Bhoop in Hindustani, whilst Yaman is a version of MechaKalyani - Also known as Yaman Kalyani(NRGMDNRS SNDPMGRNRS is one[of many controversial] Aarohanam Avarohanam of this lovely Ragam), popular song being Krishna Nee Beghane Baaro FYI, as RajaG said, on both accounts. I am also at doubt at your comment that Oru Kanam is in Mohanam.....
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Mar 19 16:00:31 EST 1999
  
  Geetha: Accepted but rajaG had alraeady made that point:)
  
  In any case, the point that Madhan was trying to drive across is still valid..namely, inspiration vs copy. Now, which is inspiration and which is copy is going to be a contentious issue:)
  
  

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