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Creativity of MSV

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:32:47 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Shashi (@ pub56k-20-15.dialup.umn.edu) on: Sun Jun 20 12:26:01 EDT 1999
  
  Hi everybody
  
  As people have said earlier, there are so many aspects to MSV's melodies that are worth discussing. I recently happen to listen to 'Anbil nadamaadum kalaikudamE, aasai mazhai megame, KaNNil viLaiyaadum ezhilvaNNamE, Kanni-Thamizh vaNNamE! (sivaji, manjula--movie?)
  
  Oh my god! what a composition! This is a peculiar raga (I am not certain of its name in carnatic; also it is not used in its purest form by MSV-characteristic by MSV). This raga is more popular in Hindustani; it was made popular by Mehdi Hassan a pakitani Ghazal singer.
  
  I used to believe that IR was the first to use this in TFM; song 'Atho mega oorvalam..' Realised that MSV has expertly handled this raga too!!
  
  
• From: hari (@ 98abb24e.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Jun 20 19:18:05 EDT 1999
  
  shashi,
  that is a great song. I think the movie is avanthan manithan. This movie also have another my
  fav song 'autivitthan yaar oruvan adathare kanna'.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ spider-tm064.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jun 20 20:20:16 EDT 1999
  
  MSV melodies have a distinct place in the memories of my childhood when the only mode of listening was thru AIR and IOKS. I have recorded some wonderful creations of MSV on cassette based purely on the memories of my time spent in TN until my graduation after which destiny cruised my will to go out of it. One of the songs that literally tickles my senses and induces a melting feeling is kaettathum koduppavanae krishna krishna in the movie 'theiva magan'. The preluding veena blows my heart out with TMS bursting right in for an umpteenth number of time. The amazing flute piece also sobs your soul out with TMS emoting like a man on the death row pleading for mercy as he goes krishna... krishna.. kirishna. The apex of the composition is aptly penned by kavingar ,'eNNai illathoru theepam erinthathu krishna .. kirishna.., unnai ninainthathu urugi irunthathu krishna.. krishna.., kaNgaLai pOl enai kAval puRinthathu krishna.. krishna..' I have another song nan malarodu thaniyaga, that starts rather explosively with violins and followed with veena but the pace drops suddenly and TMS picks it up with the normal beat. This is an excellent melody and if i remember correctly when i listened to this number for the first time , i would have been barely 6 or 7. I was standing by the chimney on the terrace of our house complex (one of those agraharam stores!) and was smelling the flavor of food cooking downstairs and this song was played in vividh bharathi. I have a feeling that whenever PS sings with tabla beats her voice quality seems to exactly match to that of tabla especially as the are notes in synchrony with tabla beat. I have observed this in this song also as she delivers the beginning of second charanam 'poN vaNdondru ...'.
  
  I must give a special mention about MSV's recording technique as many of his songs kinda perfect acoustical effect for the situation as being demanded. I have a song from 'praptham' which starts like sontham eppothum thodar kathai thAn in which MSV has used an innovative, acoustical, low-profile recording for TMS and a normal one for the BGM and PS. I think the situation is like sivaji and savithri driving through the forest areas and then canoe down a river to the fatal death. Marvellous piece of work by MSV! Another melody in which PS accentuates with the notes so delicately that charms my gamate is the song naaLai intha veLai pArthu as she renders 'solla .. vantha.. nerathil'. MSV is sensational! More later.
  
  
• From: Hari (@ cache1.uwo.ca) on: Sun Jun 20 21:33:10 EDT 1999
  
  Let me add two MSV songs. One, ennadi raakamma, the best pilu in TFM, bar none. (TMS not withstanding!) The other, muthu kullika vaarihala. What an expert use of vivadhi notes.
  
  I know MSV is held in high regard here. I like his music; but, to me he is Vivaldi to IR's Mozart: and this not just because I grew up listening to IR. I actually like GR a lot, almost as much as I do IR, and certainly as much as I do Naushad, SDB, SJ and Roshan.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy2.lrl.prodigy.net) on: Mon Jun 21 12:05:17 EDT 1999
  
  bb, it is like "thozhi" in "vaarayo thozhi" in Jeans. ARR uses a lot of fifths. Seconds could be the other singer singing the same lines in the next scale. In the song paadinaaL oru paattu, TMS and PBS take turns to sing in the higher/lower scales in the lines 'Poonguyil avaL yaro pon magaL avaL thero'.
  
  Hari, why this left handed compliment to MSV ?:-)
  SJ bracketed along with SDB & Naushad ?:-)
  
  
• From: Saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Mon Jun 21 12:26:04 EDT 1999
  
  Talking about Pahadi raga and the way it was wonderfully handled by MSV, is the song "endi mutthammaa,edhu punnagai" from film "aaru pushpangal" also based on Pahadi? who was the MD? experts clarify.
  
  
• From: bb (@ inehou-pxy04.compaq.com) on: Mon Jun 21 12:52:27 EDT 1999
  
  SL, thanks.. i was wondering somedays back if tfm uses scale switching a lot.. i thought that was an area where tfm was lacking. may be it needs a new thread for discussion if enough guys are interested.
  
  
• From: bb (@ inehou-pxy04.compaq.com) on: Mon Jun 21 12:55:24 EDT 1999
  
  dakshana mentioned that msv spent his childhood in kerala. we can discuss how much is the mallu influence in his music. i for one feel that the influence is not much, i am not sure..
  
  
• From: V. Balaji (@ webproxy03qfe0.sbi.com) on: Mon Jun 21 14:52:36 EDT 1999
  
  Saketh:
  
  Song: "endi Muthamma, Edhu Punnagai'
  Film: 'Aaru Pushpangal'
  Singer: Chandrabose (yes the music director)
  MD: Vishwanath
  *ng - Rajinikanth with Phatapat
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-237.il.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Jun 21 18:39:11 EDT 1999
  
  Shashi: the ragam is called Vasanthi, this is a very rare raga.
  
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Mon Jun 21 18:57:57 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth: Thanks man.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy9.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Mon Jun 21 19:13:20 EDT 1999
  
  bb,in this case both the singers sing the same lines, each on a different scale at the same time.Scale switching as such, was implemented in 'Raajavin Paarvai'(anbe vaa),'Nallathoru kudumbam'(thangappathakkam),'sorgam pakkathil'(enga mama) .
  
  Another unknown but great song, 'varaveNdum..' from Kalaikoyil sung by LRE. A jazz type composition of the 60's. ARR's 'veNNila veNNila' from Iruvar comes dangerously close this. I was told that ARR used 4-key chords in this song, but chords in the Kalaikoyil song were much more innovative. Srikanth & others, check this out.I am sure that there was no equivalent to this in Hindi in the sixties in terms of arrangement. I was listening to this song for the first time.
  It is so unfortunate that MSV is known best for his music for 'Pa' series of movies only (by the current generation).
  
  Rameshb, 'Naan malarodu' was lifted by Veda. The original was 'Tujhe pyaar karthe hain karthe rahenge' from 'April Fool', composed by Shankar-Jaikishan.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Jun 21 20:32:15 EDT 1999
  
  SL:
  ippadiye discuss paNNiNdu irundha romba udhaviyAga irukkum
  
  Regards
  
  MS
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ cache-dg03.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jun 21 20:39:15 EDT 1999
  
  Sriram L,
  I just looked at my cassette, 'naan malarOdu' is from 'iru vallavargaL' and not 'iru malargaL' as i thought!
  thanks for the info!
  nEtRu vEda indru dEva!
  
  
• From: Hari (@ cache1.uwo.ca) on: Mon Jun 21 21:39:38 EDT 1999
  
  Sriram,
  
  My comment was in exceedingly poor taste, certainly in this particular thread. Sorry. BTW, SJ = Shankar-Jaikishan, and not S. Janaki, unless of course you don't think the former are up to snuff.
  
  
• From: Keerthi (@ azure.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jun 21 21:49:19 EDT 1999
  
  Balaji:
  
  aaRu pushpangaL MD: Vishwanath. Yes it is
  by MSV, if that is what you meant.
  
  SL:
  I saw Kalaikoyil on VCD two days back (see MSV-TKR
  thread). Yes, vara vENdum, oru muraiyaavadhu
  is an excellent song which I was not aware of
  earlier. (BTW, did you receive my email?)
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy13.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Mon Jun 21 23:45:32 EDT 1999
  
  Hari, that's alright. Probably you did not notice the smiley. Your comments are welcome. What raag are 'Radha Kaathal varaatha' and 'Manaivi amaivathellaam' based on . Raagaesri?
  The comment about SJ was because I personally do not hold this duo at such a high esteem.
  SK, I will reply today.Strange, I also watched the movie yesterday.Unfortunately 'Naan unnai cherntha selvam' had been deleted.
  Rameshb,:))
  
  
  
• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-th042.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jun 22 00:16:47 EDT 1999
  
  After watching Apoorva Sahothargal (about 7 times now, even though the print was more or less transparent) I feel that Raja cannot be outdone or been outdone. IR and MSV are two different institutions and should not be compared at all. However, their musical approaches may be compared and the basis of the traditions involved may be compared. MSV makes us feel the power, depth of the thousands of year old traditions and knolwedge of Indian classical music in his compositions. IR has made attempts to garnish that tradition with the grandeur of western musical styles. On an analysis, a composer (MSV, Salil) who has firm believer in Indian musical traditions is able to bring out a vastly superior and profound output tthan one (IR) who believes in fusion of different forms of music or one who is experimenting and exploring the blending various forms which results in some significant losses (more power in melody) and some brilliant gains (exciting sounds from orchestration). Therefore IMHO, MSV's beliefs result in very Indian music while IRs took greater risks in exploring musical techniques never before carried out in the world.
  
  
• From: SK (@ azure.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Jun 22 00:30:49 EDT 1999
  
  Sriram:
  
  Yes I also felt sad to see naan unnai chErndha selvam
  missing from the movie. About the vara vENdum
  song... you mentioned about its uniquenss. In terms
  of tune, I feel Oh little flower (Neela Vaanam)
  to be of a similar type. Do you feel the same?
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Jun 22 00:47:57 EDT 1999
  
  SL, Hari:
  I dont find anything southpawish in Hari's compliment to MSV;-)))
  
  Hari: IMO, it was certainly not in poor taste.C'mon, you were just stating your preferences! SL was just pulling your leg(I hope so).
  
  If anything, this thread has seen a lot of LHC's for Raja. Not that it diminishes his greatness anyway.This thread has confirmed a suspicion I have held for long... that objectivity and lack of bias arent the same thing;-)))
  
  

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