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Chitra - Greatest female singler ever to grace TFM?. Is she better than SJ,PS and others?.

Topic started by easwaran Hariharan (@ amex.proxy.lucent.com) on Fri Aug 15 11:43:59 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: P. Lankathas (@ dialin577.toronto.globalserve.net) on: Sat Sep 5 02:19:45 EDT 1998
  
  they all have their plus and minus ...i mean for some songs SJ .....sounds great but for others she sounds terrible .......all that goes for all of them .....but one thing ....why leave out song other good female voices.......and my personal opinion is that ARR has used chitra to the fullest and he will still continue to do so ...i mena just think of the songs ........and you will know why i said that
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-93-48.sprint.ca) on: Fri Mar 5 18:07:34 EST 1999
  
  Hello there,
  
  I just listened to the song 'Theendai Theendai' from 'En Swaaswe Kaatrae'. Chitra does a great job in the song. Two thumbs up! Haven't heard a karnatic number in a long time and this one sounds really good. What do you guys think?
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri Mar 5 18:16:17 EST 1999
  
  I thought Theendai is by Harini. Correct me if I am wrong
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-93-48.sprint.ca) on: Fri Mar 5 18:40:27 EST 1999
  
  Theendai is definitely by Chitra.
  
  How did Harini figure into this?!
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue Mar 9 12:06:09 EST 1999
  
  aruvi,
  Sorry. The song is sung by chitra. But the initial lines resembled Harrini;s voice very much and I did not go further to listen it completely.
  
  Chitra has done a good job.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.153) on: Fri Mar 12 07:27:45 EST 1999
  
  Anyday my preference will be SJ for the following reasons:
  
  a) Versatility that PS/Chitra lack
  b) The extra thrill (emotion) generated within you, probably due to her variations - please listen to Devan kovil deepam onru, Paada vaa (both in Naan paadum paadal) and Senthoorappoove. PS/Chitra could have made these numbers hits, but you won't feel thrilled such
  c) Equal to others in rest of the departments - sweetness, classical command, effortlessness, longevity, good with any MD, sheer no. of hits, success in multiple languages etc.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-77-97.sprint.ca) on: Fri Mar 12 13:13:37 EST 1999
  
  eden
  
  Maybe you have not come to identify that MD's tend to give similar kinds of songs to the same singer, especially if their former songs of the same type were hits. So in that attitude, I believe that SJ got to sing songs that were funky and dapanguthu type. In the same way, Chitra has sung a number of Carnatic based songs, because such songs of hers were big hits. I think that this a problem of the MD's and not the singers. PS or Chitra would have sounded good in any of those songs, just as SJ had. Secondly, when you hear a singer sing the song initially, even if another sang the same song, one feels as if something is missing. To my understanding, versatility is something in the hands of the MD and not the singer because in most songs the singer sings what they are told.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss08.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Mar 12 15:01:02 EST 1999
  
  aruvi:
  I find it difficult to believe that IR would have explained each and every expression to SJ. I did not have the opportunity to listen to most of PS's numbers when they were a rage. But now, I do listen to a few of them as and when I get the chance. And while I admit that her's is the sweetest voice that I have heard, I feel she clearly lacked the expressions that SJ has depicted in all her songs. Sometime back, I even tried to reason out why. Most of the songs by PS had lyrics with classical form and dramatic content, thereby stereotyping the expressions. OTOH, during SJ's regime, most of the lyrics were in colloquial Tamizh and hence she had the opportunity to express in a way that was more realistic and hence more vivid. It is not only the opportunity that matters, but also how you make good use of it. And there is no question that SJ fully exploited IR's music and the colloquial lyrics of the day.
  
  Perhaps PS would have sounded even better than SJ or Chitra had she sung their songs. But would it have been the best output ? I can understand that most people would love the voice that renders the song. But personally, it also matters to me if the intent of the song was fully conveyed. And I think while PS did her job well in that department (from what little I have heard), SJ outdid all singers to come. I cannot accept lame excuses like, "SJ succeeded only because IR had a personal preference for her". That would be an insult to both my fave singer and fave MD :-)
  
  Eden:
  ...sweetness, classical command, effortlessness, longevity, good with any MD, sheer no. of hits, success in multiple languages etc....
  
  Were you really talking about SJ ? :-) I think both Chitra and PS have a significantly sweeter voice and better classical command with a lesser effort ! Chitra is probably the only one who's sound just as good with any MD because of her note-perfect singing. I do not exactly understand what you mean by longevity (number of years in the field ?). The rest - yes, I too think SJ was as good as any.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss08.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Mar 12 15:07:41 EST 1999
  
  Oh ! and I was not dissing lyrics with "classical form and dramatic content" :-) They undeniably have great artistic value :-)
  
  
• From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Fri Mar 12 21:53:41 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  
  Good analysis. BTB, have you heard the following songs of the IR-PS combo?
  
  1) aadum neram - Soora Samhaaram
  2) pesak koodaadhu - Adutha Vaarisu
  
  One would have typically expected SJ to sing both these songs because both these songs will suit her more than PS. I wonder why and how IR preferred PS over SJ to render these two songs. Both of them were hits, no doubt, and very good songs. But, while PS' voice is very sweet and has more clarity, I feel she lacks a bit to convey the emotion of the song. Especially in the second song, I feel SPB does more justice to the song. And this song is sung by PS for 'Silk' Smitha.
  
  My personal preference will go like : 1) PS, 2) Chithra, 3) SJ. But, I too believe that there are many songs for which only Chithra or SJ could have done justice. For eg : For SJ, "idhu oru nilaak kaalam" (Tik Tik Tik), "Kannan vandhu paaduginraan" (Irattai Vaal Kuruvi), "chinna chinna vannak kuyil" (Mouna Raagam), to name a few. No one else could have done more justice to these songs.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Fri Mar 12 23:59:53 EST 1999
  
  Appadi paarthaa SM, there are umpteen songs which could not have been sung by anyone better than PS :-))!
  
  But I just loved SJ in "Chinna Chinna Vannk Kuyil" - that's a song which could be sung only by herself and none others! You know what's the other song of SJ which I have such a high regard for? You guessed it right: Singara Velane! About "idhu oru nilaak kaalam" I haven't heard it in many many years!
  
  I haven't actually heard much of Chitra to pass such a remark in her favour!
  
  But as you know, PS's ability to sing according to the actresses was her fort(e) which anyone is yet to capture!
  
  What Srinath has quoted also has a big say in bringing out the emotions - the lyrics of those days and those during IR's regime. A very good analysis Srinath!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Sat Mar 13 00:00:33 EST 1999
  
  Ah...another great number by SJ: Nethu Rathiri...!
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ ip90.kansas-city7.mo.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Sat Mar 13 00:50:23 EST 1999
  
  Disclaimer: This is strictly IMO.
  
  One of the biggest myths floating around in TFM is that TMS could change his voice to suit Sivaji vs. MGR. Heck no! These songs were probably written, composed, or set to back ground music differently based on the artists but poor TMS can be never held 'guilty' of presenting a different style. Now Karthi is mentioning another myth viz. "But as you know, PS's ability to sing according to the actresses was her fort(e) which anyone is yet to capture!" I don't think so. She is a great singer, and has demonstrated all the qualities which the other two in the discussion have exhibited but, please, let's not discover non-existent qualities within PS to label her the greatest.
  
  Karthi,
  
  Here is a proposal. Find a bunch of teenagers (sample from the population which did not grow up listening to PS's music)and play them 20 songs by PS sung for a mixture of actresses, say Savithri, Saroja Devi and Jayalalitha (without telling them about the actress). I bet they will not be able to cluster the songs into groups based on actresses because there is no distinct 'actress stamp' in PS's singing.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Sat Mar 13 23:57:35 EST 1999
  
  I can do that!
  
  Even if it won't be possible for those teenagers (But RajaG I would like those teenagers to have an intuitive musical sense) to segregate the songs that these were sung for KRV and these for Savithri and these for someone else, I can easily get them to say that PS voice sounds so different from one song to the other, which is what we call voice modulation which was most essential for playback singing atleast in those days and not anymore!
  
  But I doubt if this will work with you who disclaims even the easily perceptive (audible?)and hence widely accepted quality of TMS to sing differently for Sivaji, MGR, JaiShankar and others!
  
  The distinct 'actress stamp' in PS voice may not be 'readily' discernible because of the following reasons. The general trend of the (Indian Cinema) world is to do hero worship - and that was why when TMS modulated his voice to suit MGR or Sivaji or whoever that was immediately obvious (though not to you!). Any movie was always itentified by the hero or the director and never by the heroine! Again, PS's voice suited almost all the heroines partly by nature and partly because of her extra efforts to introduce certain nuances and styles which, if one observes keenly one will find that, she did especially for certain actresses and also to suit the moods of the songs!
  
  I can't accept your belief that music was set for artistes - music is always set for characters and moods of the situations in films and not artistes. There were times when MGR was making his entry into politics big time, when some songs (and not all) of his films were set to boost his image and to reflect his so called goodness and songs which preached 'adherence to good principles' and things like that, came into existence. Nowadays we can see Rajinikanth's movies having such a typical quality. But generally speaking doyans like MGR and the like had a great say on their films' music but that was always to get the best out of the MD for the proposed situations and not to boost their images!
  
  Now, back to the issue: try these songs of PS:
  
  ThookkaNNaang Kuruvi Koodu and Gangai Karai ThOttam in Vanambaadi for Devika. (
  
  Andru Oomai PennallO (with A L Raghavan) for Savithri and Yaarukku MaappiLLai YaarO for Saroja Devi in Paarthaal Pasi Theerum
  
  Maalaipp Pozhudhin Mayakkathile & KannE Raja Kavalai Vendaam for Sowkar Janaki and KaaNa Vandha Kaatchi Enna & Kaadhalnnum Vadivam KandEn for E V SarOja in Bhagyalakshmi
  
  Chandiranai KaaNaamal Alli Mugam Malaruma for Saroja Devi and Iravukku Aayiram KaNgaL for Devika in KulamagaL Raadhai
  
  VeLLi MaNi OsaiyilE for KRV and Mannikka VEndugirEn for Padmini in Iru MalargaL
  
  KaNNan ENNum Mannan PErai Sollach Cholla, Thamizhukkum Amudhendru Per, Unnaithaan Naan ArivEn, Kumarip PeNNin ULLathilE, Neela ChElai Kattikk Konda - each sung for different heroines in the same year 1965.
  
  In the later years, just listen to:
  
  MaampoovE Siru MainaavE and
  Vidiya Vidiya Sollith TharuvEn
  
  - which came in two different time periods but her style remains the same because both were sung for Sri Devi!
  
  There's no end to this because PS had this immense ability which is almost non-existent in others compared to the degree it was in her.
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ ip211.kansas-city3.mo.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Sun Mar 14 02:17:23 EST 1999
  
  Karthi,
  Glad to know that you know a lot of PS songs. So you think average Joe Blo can identify different actresses from PS's singing. Gimme a break!
  Please! I hope you have not misunderstood my point about PS's singing ability. I don't question her ability to modulate a song to provide difference in expression based on situation, lyrics or tune. But 'according to actress' is definitely not one of them. For example B. Saroja Devi had a Karnataka origin and this came through (at least in her initial movies) in her accent (no not to the level of Rajani). But do you think that PS was changing her style to reflect say, this difference in accent. Once again, I'm not saying that PS's singing was deficient because of this. It is just that, this was too much 'detail' and no singer pays attention to this level of detail. Let's not give too much credit, is my point. SPB who IMO, is king of expression (if I remember correctly, you disagree) while modulating his voice based on tune, lyrics, situation etc did sound different in songs for Kamal vs. Rajni. But I'm not sure how much of this difference existed in all other aspects of the song (excluding SPB's singing) and how much was the difference created by SPB's voice.
  
  And, quoting Srinath (substance not form) if I am trying to explain the variance in even SPB's songs to many non SPB qualities (tune, lyrics, etc.) I will definitely not concede any such qualities to a playback singer like TMS, who IMO, I think, I feel, is faaaaaaaar inferior to SPB.
  
  
  

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